Hartlepool United Forum - Relegation . . . . . . . What Next?
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Relegation . . . . . . . What Next?
07 May 2017 10:03 Post ID: #111531
Luke James
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After a season which started with, at best, a whimper along with the traditional early exit from cup competitions, saw Pools have FOUR managers ( Hignett, Collins, Jones and Bates), the resignation of the Honorary President and also the Chairman.
Coupled with 2 (possibly 3) winding-up petitions from HMRC; surely nobody can be surprised at our ultimate relegation from the Football League. Without doubt over the last 12 months the Club both "on-field" and "off-field" has been a mess!

Going forward we, the supporters, need to see a positive statement of intent from the "Owners" (whoever they might be) and not banal platitudes similar to those expressed in the recent statement release on the Official site.
For me to be tempted into purchasing a Season Ticket I will first, as a minimum, need to see some clarity in respect of:-
- Managerial appointment
- Club remaining "full-time"
- Strengthening of the squad for a genuine attempt to gain promotion
- Confirmation that any monies raised from player sales ( Thomas, Carson, etc) will be used for the benefit of the team - NOT for extraneous expenditure!

We supporters can only wait and see what happens in the coming weeks / months ahead of the new season, but I'd suggest that dithering on the part of the Owners can only be to the the long-term detriment of the Club's prospects and the Owner's tenure.

Finally, the crowd yesterday (about 6,000 Poolies) must surely signify to the current Owners and / or would-be investors the potential which the Club has if it is managed successfully.
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07 May 2017 13:55 Post ID: #111532 - in reply to #111531
Antony Sweeney
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Before I put another penny into this club it needs to be clear exactly how £1.2 million in debt has been racked up by Gary Coxall and his multitude of hangers on. We must remember he still owns half this club.

If, using this as a totally hypothetical example, money has been spent on unnecessary all expenses paid trips abroad and now we're being asked to pay them off - then that's something I'm really not willing to do.

This means the Trust must be allowed full access to the accounts to ascertain whether it is worth trying to save this club in the current state, or if these debts are so high there is no chance of them being paid back. This needs to be done very quickly.

My concern is that everyone buys season tickets (like Pam has plead for) then Sage, Coxall etc. take that cash, plus the FL parachute payment and Thomas, Carson, etc transfer fees and walk off into the sunset. They put the club into administration - knowing they'd never get the rest of the debt back anyway. By buying season tickets are we simply throwing good money into a black hole?

Simply having Pam saying "honest guv, we won't shut the club down when we get a big wedge of our cash back" doesn't really cut it for me. Remember these aren't even people who want to own a football club, they simply want their cash and mountains of interest.

Will we even be able to pay the National League's entry bond and start the league in August?
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07 May 2017 17:00 Post ID: #111533 - in reply to #111531
Simon Walton
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Cheers Poolie. As if everything wasn't depressing enough.
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07 May 2017 19:49 Post ID: #111534 - in reply to #111531
Luke James
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Old Poolie - 7/5/2017 10:03

..............Finally, the crowd yesterday (about 6,000 Poolies) must surely signify to the current Owners and / or would-be investors the potential which the Club has if it is managed successfully.


Unfortunately the crowd of 6000 Poolies only happened because of UNSUCCESSFUL Management. Yesterday's crowd was only that big because of the do-or-die (probably die) situation. In the past, when the team was successfully managed in L1 the attendance was never, consistently, more than around 5000. The owners and potential "investors" know that HUFC is a financial black hole like all other L2 clubs.

Another thread asks how JPNG can possibly have run up debts of over a million pounds. EASY. The owners of HUFC have to put in £1million per year just to keep the club operating. That was the case throughout IOR's tenure and JPNG knew that when they took over. The difference is that IOR underwrote the debt - we were never going to go into administration while the owned the club. Now ? who knows.
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10 May 2017 07:56 Post ID: #111536 - in reply to #111531
Fantasy Football Champion 08/09
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Relegation.......what next?

Slump in season ticket sales
Gate prices too high
Reduced crowds
Reduced investment, are only some of the negatives.

The positive [singular] is some (double underlined) of the players will be able to perform adequately at this level [national league], unless of course we cut them loose.

Have to hit the ground running in August putting in good performances, getting points on the board quickly and winning over [or back] the pay on the day fans.

Targets should be 100pts and the FA Trophy final. Before everyone jumps up and down on me this should be the target. Not naive enough to think we'll walk the league or the trophy. simply put, we won't but we've got to have targets to assess where we are at certain points. All the on field stuff pales into insignificance if it goes t*ts up behind the scenes.

We've just got to adjust and adapt, it won't be totally alien territory to some, if we keep them, and the youngsters, Richardson, Rodney, Martin etc. etc. are resilient enough, if we put our trust in them.

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11 May 2017 19:59 Post ID: #111537 - in reply to #111534
Antony Sweeney
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Block Sands - 7/5/2017 19:49

Another thread asks how JPNG can possibly have run up debts of over a million pounds. EASY. The owners of HUFC have to put in £1million per year just to keep the club operating. That was the case throughout IOR's tenure and JPNG knew that when they took over. The difference is that IOR underwrote the debt - we were never going to go into administration while the owned the club. Now ? who knows.


I don't think that's the case. The last set of accounts (up to 30 June 2016) show the club had a £47,049 debt. That's after one year of Coxall's ownership. One year more and we are £1.2 million in debt despite selling a load of players, cutting costs on and off the field and apparently having a huge sponsorship deal. So where did that £1.2 million extra get spent in 16/17 than it did in 15/16?
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11 May 2017 21:21 Post ID: #111538 - in reply to #111537
Luke James
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I don't dispute your figures Poolie but the detail is really irrelevant. The fact is that HUFC has accumulated debt at the rate of about £1m per year over the last 17yrs or so. JPNG don't seem to be any different to IOR in how much it's costing them.

The worrying thing is that IOR always effectively wrote off the debt (or underwrote it maybe). The point was that the club was never truly in debt to anybody other than IOR. I'm not sure that's the case with JPNG. The club has already been in trouble with HMRC three times. That suggests the owners are not covering the debts and administration is a distinct possibility where it never was before.
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12 May 2017 14:11 Post ID: #111539 - in reply to #111538
Antony Sweeney
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I think the details are highly relevant.

Under IOR you had £1 million losses (for at least the first 12 years) but they were funding a team at the top of League 2 and then at the top of League 1. A club that could go and sign any player from the bottom division and pay good transfer fees to do so. This debt was a fully funded "paper debt" for tax purposes which was written off.

Under Coxall we sold players left, right and centre, cut costs to the bone and wouldn't even pay to bring good players in on loan. And we lost EVEN more than we did under IOR. How does that stack up?!

You're also right that this is proper debt, which will need to be paid back at who knows what interest rate. Versus the paper debt under IOR.

I am not confident that we'll start next season without going into administration, especially if the ownership structure remains how it is today.
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12 May 2017 16:27 Post ID: #111540 - in reply to #111531
Simon Walton
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If you are right Poolie we could easily end up like Darlo. Depressing.
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15 May 2017 19:00 Post ID: #111544 - in reply to #111531
Luke James
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Nathan Thomas' move to Sheffield Utd now confirmed on OS, though fee is "undisclosed" (no surprise there!).

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16 May 2017 18:54 Post ID: #111545 - in reply to #111531
Sam Collins
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For who is signing up for manager I do not think we will have any chance at bouncing back. Collins a newbie we have had enough of newbies then there is Turner he walked out on us for Sheffield but now wants to come back as far as I am concerned he should be shown the door. If either of them get the job we are doomed look who is trying to make a come back with Collins Yes R. Moore do we really want a has been as well. We need a winner and as far as it goes the Welsh manager looks good bet he is a record breaker as well as taken T.N.S to multi champions of their league he wants to come home and play in the English leagues this is the kind of chap we should be looking for to take us back into the leagues. We sold N. Thomas for around £200,000 sold on the cheap again.

Edited by pooleboot 16/5/2017 19:00
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16 May 2017 19:04 Post ID: #111546 - in reply to #111531
Sam Collins
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If the owners take us to court for their money back then the question to ask is what happened to the money we got from selling players it should be a couple hundred thousand pounds he ows this club. I also think he has a cheek to sell us his shares for around £600,000 first of all I wish his the best of luck on getting that they are not worth the paper they are written on I think he though running a football club was a big game and he can get his money back when he got sick of playing. Now he really has spit out his dummy. But at leased if he does wind up the club it will be the last time anyone can hurt us.

Edited by pooleboot 16/5/2017 19:14
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