Hartlepool United Forum - Finances
Vital Football

Latest Hartlepool United News

Hartlepool United Football Club News

Vital Football on FacebookVital Football on TwitterVital Football via RSS Feed
Not logged in.
( Login | register | forgotten password )
Current Poll (see more polls)
Doncaster MotM
Suggested By: Site Staff
Carson12%
Donnelly3%
Walker1%
Harrison0%
Magnay6%
Woods3%
Featherstone1%
Hawkins1%
Alessandra6%
Amond1%
Oates12%
Sub - Deverdics1%
Sub - Rodney50%
Sub - Simpson3%
Vital Football Comment
Vital Members League Table
RankNamePoints
1.Alfalfa6
2.Old Poolie5
3.Smokin Joe4
4.billytwodogs4
5.Block Sands2
6.Darlo Waiter1
Write for Vital Football
Breaking League News
Jump to forum:
Pages (2):
1
2
Finances
19 December 2016 20:44 Post ID: #110645
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
So our financal situation takes another turn. I've been reading on the Facebook group and the Bunker (which is now back online) and HUFC have taken out a high interest loan, supposedly to fund this:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/14976037.Mill_House_redevelo...

The suggestion is that this is the Mill House Masterplan rehashed, even though last time there was a funding shortfall of millions. Obviously no sane lender would give us a loan, so we've gone to the a "high interest" provider. No idea what the size of the loan is, because the article doesn't say. Also there's not a single quote from the council in there, which is very unusual if a deal is on the horizon - in fact it suggests the journalist has just written exactly what the club have told him.

None of this is adding up to me. Especially when the other day the chairman wasn't convincingly denying that players hadn't been paid.

As Star Wars is back in the news, all I can say is: "I've got a bad feeling about this".
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
19 December 2016 21:07 Post ID: #110646 - in reply to #110645
Luke James
5001001001001005025
The Hartlepool Mail is also running the story, though they have obtained a spokesperson comment from the Council saying that decisions are yet to be made!!

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/hartlepool-united-win-funding-...

Hopefully Mr Coxall has something concrete from the Council and not just a vague Memorandum of Understanding.
I'm sure Ken Hodcroft could provide some insight into the workings of HBC.
Like post
Like this post
1
Top of the page Bottom of the page
19 December 2016 22:57 Post ID: #110647 - in reply to #110646
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
Old Poolie - 19/12/2016 21:07
Hopefully Mr Coxall has something concrete from the Council and not just a vague Memorandum of Understanding.


Or maybe this loan money is to be used for running the club because all the money has gone? And a few quotes to the never-questioning local press make it look like we're gonna be building hotels and shops and everything is rosy?

Despite the fact the town is littered with empty shops already.

I would love to know what the terms of the agreement are. If this is a short-term bridging loan then we could be in big trouble because it's not regulated by the FCA and the interest rates are generally astronomical.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
20 December 2016 08:16 Post ID: #110649 - in reply to #110645
Luke James
5001001001001005025
I don't do Twitter and am, generally, sceptical of stories in local newspapers. Hence it would be good if the Club, Gary Coxall, issued a formal statement of their intentions, this might go someway to allaying the concerns, suspicions of us supporters.

I remember, only to well, the days of Gary Gibson at Pools, and the ddeath throes of Darlington once they moved into the Arena.


Edited by Old Poolie 20/12/2016 08:20
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
20 December 2016 14:34 Post ID: #110652 - in reply to #110645
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
Coxhall replies to fans on Twitter, a lot. But then he's picking what questions he replies to. This is where local newspaper journalists should come in, but I don't see any challenges from them.

Darlo is a warning to everybody at HUFC, from the chairman down to us supporters, build it and they will come doesn't tend to work and clubs are very easily financially crippled. As I said above I see absolutely no demand for additional retail units in the town, especially that far away from the town centre. Thinking there's some latent demand for hotel rooms seems pie in the sky to me as well.

Taking out high interest, bad credit loans in any circumstance should be avoided. Yet that's the path we are already going down.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
20 December 2016 15:08 Post ID: #110653 - in reply to #110645
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
20 December 2016 16:58 Post ID: #110656 - in reply to #110653
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
Good find, Old Poolie.

Two things of note, the first being: "Haycox, who is behind the UK lap-dancing brand Wildcats". Yup.

Secondly Coxall's quotes:

Coxall, who took over the reins of Hartlepool FC last year, added: “I’m not interested in dealing with big banks. You can never talk to the decision maker, you can never get an answer right away.

“Things move fast in football and property and Access provided us the funding we needed 3 days after the 1st call!“


So this is a lender who is giving money within 3 days to company which is regularly being chased by HMRC and handed winding-up petitions. This is distress finance, plain and simple. The type you have to turn to when the banks won't touch you with a bargepole. Even Coxall said we needed the cash right away, which doesn't make sense if this is meant to be a long-term development project.

Please someone come back and show me how I'm reading this all wrong, because I need talking down off this ledge.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
20 December 2016 18:06 Post ID: #110657 - in reply to #110645
Luke James
5001001001001005025
Looking increasingly worrying for Pools' future. I would be less pessimistic if Gary Coxall put out a press statement via the Pools website and ceased Tweeting or giving "leaked" stories to the local press.

After half-a-century of supporting Pools I don't think I have ever been as concerned for the financial prospects as I am today. I know there have been dark times in the past but I always thought the sums weren't so insurmountable that a "white knight" couldn't be found, sadly I'm coming to the conclusion that is not the case with, what would appear to be, the current predicament.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
22 December 2016 19:23 Post ID: #110675 - in reply to #110645
Fantasy Football Champion 08/09
1000500100
From a layman's perspective it looks like a 'payday' type loan, borrowing on the strength of something. I'm not [usually] one for outrageous speculation and I have no idea why they needed it or what they are borrowing against. Until something happens I'm intrigued but not yet overly concerned.

Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
23 December 2016 00:56 Post ID: #110680 - in reply to #110675
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
billytwodogs - 22/12/2016 19:23

From a layman's perspective it looks like a 'payday' type loan, borrowing on the strength of something. I'm not [usually] one for outrageous speculation and I have no idea why they needed it or what they are borrowing against. Until something happens I'm intrigued but not yet overly concerned.

:132:


The fact we are taking payday-style loans is enough to concern me. Especially as these were in November and we should (theoretically) have money in the bank from season ticket sales in the summer.

Not saying this is what's happened here, but when Rangers went pop they had mortgaged future season ticket money.

Like you say though, a simple statement on the official website or in the papers would put many rumours to bed. Answering selective questions on Twitter does nobody any favours.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
23 December 2016 08:57 Post ID: #110682 - in reply to #110645
Antony Sweeney
5000100010010025
I confess that I am not completely confident in Gary "Previously bankrupt? Yes, that was me" Coxall's financial wizardry and find this report extremely worrying.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
23 December 2016 16:00 Post ID: #110685 - in reply to #110645
Fantasy Football Champion 08/09
1000500100
Don't payday type lenders ask for a guarantor as a secondary safeguard in case of the primary borrower defaulting on repayments? If this is Coxall, surely his backside is firmly in the sling!

If it goes, as almost, everybody is expecting it to surely some of the blame falls squarely onto the toes of the FL, for their failure to administer correctly the requirements of their own fit and proper persons test. It'll all come out in the wash.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning" H. Ford


Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
23 December 2016 18:53 Post ID: #110686 - in reply to #110685
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
billytwodogs - 23/12/2016 16:00

Don't payday type lenders ask for a guarantor as a secondary safeguard in case of the primary borrower defaulting on repayments? If this is Coxall, surely his backside is firmly in the sling!


Again playing devil's advocate but you can declare yourself bankrupt, can't you? Something which we know Coxall has done before.

Companies House lists 54 appointments for the elusive Peter Goldberg, many of them dissolved or even liquidated - including some where he was both appointed and resigned as a director on the same day.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/y9MrhOllfBNilDEsYRiN7Wu-...
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
24 December 2016 14:47 Post ID: #110688 - in reply to #110645
Luke James
50010010010010050
There is now a statement from Gary Coxhall on the club site. I think it makes me feel more confident about the state of finances. I say "think" but he refers to a third winding-up order by HMRC. I was aware of two but apparently there is a third. Like the others it has, apparently, been sorted out. A figure of £100,000 is mentioned as part of money owed. I suppose that's not a lot by football standards but worrying none the less.

Mr Coxhall says there will be a fans forum in the New Year at which he will answer questions in person so I think that's good.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
24 December 2016 15:41 Post ID: #110689 - in reply to #110645
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
Good on him for putting a statement out, it was very much overdue.

However, I do not want the council to sell the ground to Coxall or indeed anyone. It is an asset of the town, owned and for the people of Hartlepool. Nothing is gained by letting it into private hands. In fact as dozens of other clubs (some much bigger than ours) have shown, anything can happen and while the council might make a few quid now the long term consequences could be disastrous for our local economy.

I would be really interested in people's opinions on this because I see little clamour from HUFC fans to sell the ground, wheras Coxall makes it sound like everyone is behind his plan. As I've said above the wider ideas of building retail and housing is harebrained at best.

We need communication from this on a regular basis, in an official form, not just ad-hoc tweets.

Is anyone on here a member of the trust? I'm very much thinking of joining.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
24 December 2016 16:25 Post ID: #110690 - in reply to #110645
Fantasy Football Champion 08/09
1000500100
The only issue I have is with ownership of the ground. Should stay where it is. I know ownership opens up funding streams but...

Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
24 December 2016 19:19 Post ID: #110691 - in reply to #110689
Luke James
50010010010010050
PooliePoolie - 24/12/2016 15:41
I would be really interested in people's opinions on this because I see little clamour from HUFC fans to sell the ground,


There's no clamour because most fans don't give a monkey's on this.

In my view the club would be able to invest more if they owned the ground. It's like renting a house - you aren't going to improve it if the landlord gets the benefit. Owning the ground itself and maybe a small area outside for parking is one thing but the club owning a larger area with houses and businesses is all together different.

We've been over the issues before when IOR wanted to buy the ground. I said at the time that Hartlepool Council would never sell because 95% of the people in the town have little interest in the club (based on a pop. of 100k and attendance/real interest of 5000). The Council probably see more votes in being tough and holding out for an unreasonable amount.

If JPNG gets to own the ground there is a vague possibility they could sell at a profit and walk away. That should be preventable if the sale contract is watertight. On the other hand the Council could end the Clubs lease and sell up themselves. For me it comes down to who do you trust most (or even at all) businessmen or councillors ?
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pages (2):
1
2
Jump to forum: