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Defensive worry beads are out
26 July 2015 11:15 Post ID: #107837
Darren Holden
10050
Four conceded at home to Scunthorpe in four-nil defeat at the Vic, FIVE against Non-League neighbours Gateshead in a five-three defeat! There's a bit of worry from bert lynch....

Read more: http://www.hartlepool.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=406745#ixzz...
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26 July 2015 18:43 Post ID: #107838 - in reply to #107837
James Poole
50050
Sitting in the sun in Florida I have just found out the recent results. As I said previously Moore is a good manager but not a miracle worker. If you sign ten free transfers you will be lucky to get four successes and we all know what you get when you pay peanuts. Supporters who thought we would be pushing promotion were being far too optimistic just lets get to that 50 points as soon as possible. I may be going over old ground but I still believe we need some decent midfielders. Remember the answer to my previous post by a certain regular that we had nine midfielders come on most of them were fullbacks and wingers.. Problem is if you want a Tinkler,widdrington or Boland you have to pay decent wages and I can not see that happening
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27 July 2015 10:54 Post ID: #107843 - in reply to #107837
Fantasy Football Champion 09/10 and 10/11
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Agree that pre season hasn't continued to beam with optimism but by no means has the potential for a successful season evaporated because of 2 friendlies.

A lot of what your saying is fair JohnJo... but i disagree with your thoughts on free transfers. Once upon a time that was the case but I think times and football has changed. Clubs dont have the finances to keep players on long contracts at our level... and most clubs often sign players for free.

The fact is simple, in todays market there are more players that clubs/squad places. With FFP and having to name x amount of players in some divisions... clubs have to be cleverer and like Pools most release a lot of players at the end of the season to bring in fresh blood... there is now a constant turnover of free transfers throughout the leagues. So I think you can find good players on free transfers... the problem is there is so many free transfers sometimes its hard to see the woods from the trees.

The midfield is a debate/contentious area... on the ball I think we have some good players without it yea I would love a Tinks... but I think generally they are a dyeing bread... nobody wants to just sit and tackle anymore. I still think another winger is vital... especially with the 3 at the back looking ropey.

However that is a problem that could resolve itself. We have 6 players at the back to integrate together, to build into a solid unit and for most of them to understand a new system. Course it will take time but how much is the question. If they can find their feet and fast we will be good... but the longer it takes the quicker the season slips away.

The squad is in a massively better place than last summer and the one before that... we just need to give them time... if things are no better by November, then by all means rip the roof off but come on... a little faith in the man that saved this club.

You say he is not a miracle worker...But last seasons great escape sort of tells a different story, don't you think?
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28 July 2015 10:14 Post ID: #107848 - in reply to #107837
Antony Sweeney
5000100010010025
One reason that free transfers are different these days is the Bosman ruling which means that players are not tied to clubs even once their contracts have expired (as used to be the case). This means that more players are available on free transfers than used to be the case, including the better ones which clubs previously wanted to hold onto (either 'just in case' or because they felt they could bring in a fee for them).

Agree. Let's get to 50 points as soon as possible.

Then let's go for promotion.

Seriously, yes it's possible that I & others have been overoptimistic. Time will tell. Most people would agree that the club has been on an upward trajectory since Mr Moore's arrival. The unknowns are whether the upward trajectory will continue (few seem to doubt this but we could all be wrong) and, if the upward trajectory does continue, how fast & how far upwards we'll go.

It's good to aim high.

It's also good to not have so many ****** ads popping up but I suppose someone has to pay for this site...

Edited by EddTheDuck 28/7/2015 10:18
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28 July 2015 12:27 Post ID: #107850 - in reply to #107837
James Poole
50050
Yes it's true that free transfers are different owing to Bosman but we are still getting the old free transfer types. Bosman types are generally players who want big wages and hawk themselves around. We just can not pay these type of wages and therefor will not be able to attract the Tinkler, Bolland standard players we just have to hope one or two of the frees come good.
I keep saying the teams at the top in general pay top wages and the truth is we are not so until we do we have to be realistic .
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28 July 2015 18:53 Post ID: #107851 - in reply to #107837
Fantasy Football Champion 09/10 and 10/11
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I dont necessarily agree... at this level. Top level bsoman, highest budget wins out... I think L2 is much of a muchness, Burton showed last season that they werent a great side, they were just hard to beat through being solid, well drilled and had a game plan that worked for the players they had. Cant say on the day at the Vic that anyone of their players stood out in memory as being a player I would want at Pools.

Cant remember about Tinks but Widds and Bolland where both free transfers as was Stephenson, Butler (I know that for every potential good signing there is a bad one... but that happens free or not) and many others the idea that you cant get quality (for this level) in free transfers I think is a bit old school... not many clubs in L2 buy a lot of players. Ok we might not be throwing around top dollar on wages but equally it is a buyers market.

There is more players than clubs/squad spaces... last summer I read a stat that over 20% of all league players given a free transfer had yet to find a club before the season kicked-off. So with this in mind, why would we pay 'over the odd's when players should be scrapping for a club.

Fact is Ronnie did well last season with those he brought in... and until we start dropping league points I am more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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28 July 2015 21:04 Post ID: #107852 - in reply to #107837
Antony Sweeney
500050005000200050010050
Moore says he's sticking with the 3-5-2 in the paper today. First team playing at Dunston tomorrow night. He'd planned to play the youths until Saturday's game.
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28 July 2015 22:31 Post ID: #107853 - in reply to #107837
James Poole
50050
When Pools were doing well a few seasons ago we were paying top money. I remember Darlington manager saying Pools had one of the biggest budgets in the league. These teams that come through like Rushden, burton, Fleetwood etc are all totally reliable on one person piling money into the clubs and when they pull out you know what happens. Remember Rushden, Hereford,Maidstone. I do not know the budgets of last seasons top clubs but I would bet they were the teams with the biggest budgets. You can go further down the leagues to the Northern League or the leagues Darlington are in and the same thing happens, money talks.
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28 July 2015 23:33 Post ID: #107854 - in reply to #107837
Simon Walton
100050010010025
Money talks indeed Johnjo - if RM is unable to shape up what appears to be at best a patchy squad fairly quickly the new owners may be required to reveal their level of financial commitment to the club rather sooner than they would have anticipated even a few weeks back. Predictably, the eternal optimists, having backed off from predicting a season of promotion-chasing exploits are now appealing for the squad members to be allowed ' time to gel'. It should be patently obvious this club simply cannot afford to repeat the dire start to last season which directly led to TGE but at the present time would appear to be entirely possible. Take a good look at the L2 league table currently on the Beeb website cos the sight of Pools in 10th place is highly unlikely to be repeated over the next nine months.

Edited by Smokin Joe 28/7/2015 23:41
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29 July 2015 13:03 Post ID: #107855 - in reply to #107837
Fantasy Football Champion 09/10 and 10/11
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Yea lets have a go at the players and Ronnie and the new owners before a league game is even played. Lets all resign ourself to failure. Lets start calling the team and squad crap before they have played a competitive game. Lets all assume that everyone is paying higher wages and paying transfer fees. Lets assume that for whatever argument I present there will be a counter argument that is based on assumption and hear say... Oh wait!

Right now I have that out of my system. Money doesn't guarantee success. FACT! Peterborough finished 9th after spending most of the £5 Million raised from the sale of Assombalonga. Portsmouth have parted with more money than any club in L2 and still are stuck in this division. Spending doesn't guarantee anything. We are not a cash rich club/ we never have been on the grand scale of things... let it go.

Some of you are just never happy. When CC was brining in all the loanees from the Boro people were complaining about not giving our youth a chance. They get a chance and then take an absolute slating for their efforts (Holden being a regular target even when he didnt play).

We get rid of CC... we get Rid of the deadwood... LIKE WE ALL HAVE BEEN WANTING FOR SOME YEARS.

NOW we haven't even played a league game and the new look team is already taking a hammering from people who honestly need to look on the brighter side of life. Even looking at the worst case scenario (at this very moment)... this is the worst I can summarise. L2 over all is awful the lack of consistency is unreal. in 1 summer any squad can go from play-offs to relegation or vice versa and everything in between. Squads change so rapidly that there is no point looking at 90% of the league from last season as this year will be totally different. Every team is starting from ZERO. NOBODY has an advantage. NOBODY has proven anything. SO WHY WHY WHY are you so adamant we will fail?

I can understand airing on the side of caution... but you have no basis at all to call this squad 'Patched-up'. It is fans/comments like that... that put the extra pressure on. You are not giving the team time to gel? Wow... how nice of you. When you go to a new job... can you do that job to the 100% of your ability from day 1? Especially when you considering most of them are relocating.

Yes, maybe I am being over optimistic but pre season is the once chance you have to generally be as optimistic as you like... because once the league starts its there in black and white how good or bad we are. So why not enjoy this moment of the 'unknown'.

Side note: IF you think we are the only fans that have these conversations you are out of your mind... every club in L2 will have boards were some fans are already resigned to defeat in one way shape or form and other fans who are hell bent on success. We are not unique, we are very much the norm
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29 July 2015 15:45 Post ID: #107860 - in reply to #107837
James Poole
50050
Owen I am as passionate a fan as anybody and I am hoping for a successful season but as I say I like Joe are trying to be realistic and not being carried away. I just do not see through rose coloured specs. I honestly believe with the players we have bought in we can Finnish better than last year but that's it.
I agree money dose not guarentee success but without it you will struggle. Again I say look at every level of football and you can almost guarentee the clubs with the biggest budgets are there or there a outs.
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29 July 2015 22:23 Post ID: #107866 - in reply to #107837
Simon Walton
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Love the rant Owen - I bet you feel a lot better offloading that from your chest - however you are in fact correct in much of your tirade - although no-one is writing off the season just yet - it is indeed far too early to properly assess the strength or indeed weakness of the current squad.

But however much you or others try to gloss over the Gateshead result, a full-strength Pools side conceding five goals to a mediocre Conference outfit represents a serious cause for concern for many long-suffering Pools who were anticipating a major change in their sides fortunes this season. The fact that RM elected to field another near full strength side against puny Dunston tonight shows that he shares the concern of many fans. A seemingly comfortable 3-0 win will hardly set the fans pulses racing ahead of the final pre-season game on Saturday but I suppose the out of form defenders have at least had an opportunity to 'gel' together (how I hate that phrase).

Finally, I take issue with your statement that we have 'got rid of the deadwood' - this is clearly not the case as, astonishingly to many, the totally ineffective Bates and the risible Parnaby seemingly remain - for reasons known only to himself - part of RM's plans. Let us hope that the club does not pay a heavy price for the retention of these parasites who could and should both have made way for a much-needed experienced centre-back in the David Mirfin mould.

At the risk of being burned at the stake for heresy I for one will never hesitate to have a go at these players nor the latest Pools messiah for what appears to be a poor error of judgement in respect of this unwanted and overrated pair of sicknotes.

Edited by Smokin Joe 29/7/2015 22:44
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13 August 2015 19:04 Post ID: #107998 - in reply to #107837
Fantasy Football Champion 08/09
1000500100
As the business end has commenced and commenced very well, with two clean sheets are the worry beads still out???

Been away for a while and glad to see you lot didn't break anything while I was out.

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